Forum: General Commentary
Topic: AIRCRAFT CARRIERS
started by: Henricus
Posted by Henricus on Dec. 29 2001,10:50I have always wondered: If the aircraft carriers were not at Pearl where were they? Were they moved because somone knew that Pearl would be attacked soon? If this is the case who knew?
Posted by Larry Jewell on Dec. 29 2001,7:11The carriers were:
Lexington, 400 miles west of Oahu, heading west. Lexington had left Pearl on Dec. 5th.
Enterprise, 200 miles west of Oahu, heading east. Enterprise had left Pearl on Nov. 28th and was due back in port on Dec. 6th.
Saratoga, enroute to San Diego from Seattle.
Who knew where they were? Adm. Kimmel and the appropriate members of his staff, and the crews of the carrier groups themselves. Kimmel had notified DC about his plans for the carriers, and got an "ack" back, but DC did not know exactly where they were, nor did they care over-much.
If you go to < The Myths of Pearl Harbor > you'll find a ten-page report of the movements of the carriers and who ordered what and when. You'll find that Washington had nothing to do with which carriers were in port on any particular day, and that from the best information they had Enterprise was supposed to be anchored west of Ford Island on the 7th. Not "safely out to sea" as some people claim.
At the site above you'll also find evidence to debunk the more common myths about the attack.
Posted by GeorgeP on Jan. 13 2002,8:40
In fact, according to Steady Nerves and Stout Hearts: The Enterprise (CV6) Group and Pearl Harbor, 7December1941, the only thing that kept Enterprise out of Pearl on Sunday morning was a storm which delayed them from entering port.
Posted by Larry Jewell on Jan. 13 2002,10:49Yes, but FDR provided that storm. It was part of his plot to blow up the USN and destroy our warfighting potential in the Pacific. From his "eastern Whitehouse", located atop Mt. Olympus, he sent forth bolts of lightning to roil the air and distrub the radio communications between the mainland and Hawaii as well. Records show that cell phone communication was impossible during this time. Why?
He also had all satellite surveillence systems inoperative during this period. If you check the records you will find NO KH-11 pictures of the North Pacific at this time. Why? Why withhold this information if he was "so innocent"?
Posted by Fortress on Jan. 24 2002,12:59Wasn't the Enterprise completing the mission of taking more supplies and men to Wake Island?
Posted by Larry Jewell on Jan. 24 2002,4:14They had just delivered a squadron of Marine fighters. [/i]Lexington[/i] was outbound to do the same at Midway. She was recalled before completing that mission.
Posted by manwithasenseofhistory on Jan. 23 2003,12:21Question!
Was there any type of radio communication to the mainland, as Mr. Jewell implied otherwise, on the date of Dec 7, 1941? If so, was it regulated in any way by security concerns?
"Yes, but FDR provided that storm. It was part of his plot to blow up the USN and destroy our warfighting potential in the Pacific. From his "eastern Whitehouse", located atop Mt. Olympus, he sent forth bolts of lightning to roil the air and distrub the radio communications between the mainland and Hawaii as well. Records show that cell phone communication was impossible during this time. Why?"
Larry Jewell, Posted on Jan 13, 2003
Posted by Ken Hackler on Jan. 23 2003,12:36Yes there was certainly radio and telephone communication between Hawaii and the mainland at the time.
Larry's bit of sarcasm is simply because of the many rumors and myths surrounding the reinforcement of Wake and Midway that took the carriers away from Pearl that week.
As Larry was so eloquently trying to point out, ADM Kimmel made the decision to reinforce both islands, and no one in DC had a say in that matter. There are lengthy discussions about this event in the Pearl Harbor Attack Hearings if you'd like to find out more.
ADM Kimmel and GEN Short had been quabbling about who would be in command of the defense of those islands if the Army had provided the planes, so Kimmel made the decision to use Marine aircraft.