CLICK TO SUPPORT
PEARL HARBOR ATTACKED

 


Search Members Help

» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

1 members are viewing this topic
>Guest

Page 1 of 41234>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Japanese air group losses Dec.7, 1941< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Steve Layne Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: Apr. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2001,3:33  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hello to all.  I have read that there were only 5 Kates lost at Pearl- that all were torpedo planes of the first wave, and that all were from the Kaga.  If this is so, then could I assume that Kaga's air group suffered more losses than any other of the Japanese participants?  Did any carrier (possibly Shokaku or Zuikaku) suffer no losses at all?
 Ive also read that credit for the fatal magazine hit from an armor-piercing bomb may have come from a 5-plane group from the Hiryu.  If that is true, then added to the damage cause by her torpedo planes (West Virginia?), can I assume that Hiryu's air group inflicted the most damage (at least to the primary naval targets) and was the most succesful at Pearl?  This information will help me in my presentation of models Ive built for donation to a museum.  I thought  it might be good to include some trivia like that.  Thanks.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 2
David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
Moderator-Historian
Avatar

TeamIcon

Group: Moderators
Posts: 901
Joined: Feb. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2001,7:41 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Aloha Steve,
The info on the Japanese losses is given, by crewman in my roster given in the largest photographic history of the Pearl Harbor Attack in ANY language: Stan Cohen: EAST WIND RAIN [Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub; 1981, revised 1991, corrected 1994, retitled as ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR - A Pictorial History in 2000] in the 1994 and later editions on page 91. This info was also printed in the forthcoming Ernest Arroyo PEARL HARBOR volume [New York, NY: MetroBooks; May 2001] on page 157.
HTH,

Edited by David Aiken on --

--------------
Cheers,

David Aiken, a Director
Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.

Keep the largest WWII website on line!
Join NOW: $25
P.O. Box 1007
Stratford, CT  06615

http://www.pearlharbor-history.org/
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 3
David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
Moderator-Historian
Avatar

TeamIcon

Group: Moderators
Posts: 901
Joined: Feb. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2001,1:47 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Aloha All,
Japanese aviation losses:
Five Kaga KATEs (all first wave torpedo): all by AA fire

Nine fighters:
Five by AA fire, one each by Harry Brown and Malcolm Moore; two unknown.

Fifteen VALs:
Shokaku VAL first wave: got lost/crashed in ocean. Second Wave VALs: seven were hit by AA fire, the rest by Daines, Welch, Taylor, Brown.

Despite Gordon Prange's text, NO losses occurred on takeoff. There were three aborts (two VALS and a Zero) that returned to the carriers safely.

There were several mechanical problems found before takeoff...I rostered these in EAST WIND RAIN by Stan Cohen (1994 edition or later)[Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub]...page 15.

HTH,

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 4
Steve Layne Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: Apr. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2001,4:22 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hello, David.  Great info.  I will read the book- I bet that a dedicated researcher like yourself would like to see people look these things up for themselves- that is understandable.  I hope that he other questions (I realize that I have many) are answered in that publication.  Thanks.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 5
David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
Moderator-Historian
Avatar

TeamIcon

Group: Moderators
Posts: 901
Joined: Feb. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2001,4:49 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Steve,
It is not that I refuse to give things on a "silver platter", it is that I highly respect the efforts of the authors and publishers in their just return for their hard work. Further, I point out the items by page numnber as this saves me typing time and there is MUCH more within to obtain than the single items requested.
Cheers,
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 6
Steve Layne Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: Apr. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 23 2001,5:54 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks, David.   Maybe I was wondering if you would take me seriously as a Pearl Harbor buff, or whether I might ask too mcuh of you.  Just being in this forum is interesting as I have held these interests privately for so long now.  I do understand your wanting to respect the effort put into the research on these subjects.  I will, Im sure, glean much from knowing you and others who share this common interest.  I will enjoy the readings you've recommended, and Im sure I'll have some questions!  Thanks again for your quick responses.  Cheers,  Steve Layne
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 7
Angie Search for posts by this member.

1

TeamIcon

Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 55
Joined: Dec. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2002,10:52 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

MESSAGE FROM DAVID AIKEN


Aloha All,
For some time, I have been posting drawings and many of the photos upon which the drawings were based for Japanese aircraft involved in the Pearl Harbor Attack at http://communities.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraft/replicajan1990.msnw

The basic source is the lengthy article "Shinjuwan no 101 Ki" [Pearl Harbor and 101 Aircraft] by H. Yoshimura with M. Asano and myself. This was a five year collaboration from 1985 until the Japanese magazine Re-Pu-Ri-Ka [Replica] came out with the article in Jan 1990.

Along with that "101 Aircraft" Replica article, I wrote an article on the American Technical Intelligence Investigation of aircraft recovered from the Pearl Harbor Attack illustrated with US intelligence drawings and photos made during the investigation. This is also posted at: http://communities.msn.com/japanes....or.msnw

After the article appeared, another publication appeared: "Shinjuwan Kogekitai" [Pearl Harbor Attack Units] by K. Osuo, with artwork by S. Nohara [Model Art Special #378].  The artwork was based in part on our work, but -alas- has many errors.

Our Replica effort was highly received in Japan and quickly sold out. Yet, as noted, publications may contain errors. Our Jan 1990 effort had some errors. So when Replica wanted to reprint the "Shinjuwan no 101 Ki" article for their July 1992 edition, we made another companion article with corrections, additions, sources, and included many of the photos as well. The above noted URL continues with that effort.

Added to this, a lengthy discussion continues on the colors of the Japanese aircraft. Some witnesses and reports speak of "mustard" color on some planes, green on others, and yet gray on yet more. Relics are a source for some of these colors, yet a host of problems raised their head. The eyes of the observer was called into question, and the metamerism caused by different light during observation, and/or chemical interaction of the color with exposure, time, and with the undercoat colors. So I have posted many of these relics with a variety of the colors used at Pearl Harbor and at other actions at: http://communities.msn.com/japanes....or.msnw

If you know of Japanese relics from Pearl Harbor or later actions which might help with this topic, or which might help determine serials numbers, tail codes, or crew identifications at Pearl Harbor, please contact me. If you need a relic identified by Japanese crew or more information about your relic, please contact me. No, I am not a relic collector, as I am only interested in photos of such items, but I know of select museums which may be interested.

Cheers,
David Aiken, Shinjuwan Sakusen Sensei
a Director: Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.

--------------
"You just go home, Mrs. Edgers, we'll get back to this piece on Monday."
-- Commander Alwin Kramer, after receiving crucial intelligence data from the only woman in the Navy's Cryptographic Section on Dec. 6, 1941.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 8
Angie Search for posts by this member.

1

TeamIcon

Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 55
Joined: Dec. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2002,10:55 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

POSTED BY JT BROWN


My father watched what he believed was the first Japanese airplane shot down in the attack. He was standing in front of the Marine Barracks and the plane came from right to left, was shot down with tracer fire, took part of the roof off the naval hospital as it crashed and ended up on the tennis court by officers housing. I have some of the engine parts and wanted to know more about the plane, pilot, who shot it down, or anything else I can find out.

--------------
"You just go home, Mrs. Edgers, we'll get back to this piece on Monday."
-- Commander Alwin Kramer, after receiving crucial intelligence data from the only woman in the Navy's Cryptographic Section on Dec. 6, 1941.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 9
Angie Search for posts by this member.

1

TeamIcon

Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 55
Joined: Dec. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2002,11:03 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

POSTED BY K. HACKLER


Hello there !

David Aiken has studied the air attack more than anyone I know, so perhaps an e-mail to him is in order. He may not have the complete answer, but he probably knows where to look.  

Good luck!

--------------
"You just go home, Mrs. Edgers, we'll get back to this piece on Monday."
-- Commander Alwin Kramer, after receiving crucial intelligence data from the only woman in the Navy's Cryptographic Section on Dec. 6, 1941.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 10
Angie Search for posts by this member.

1

TeamIcon

Group: Super Administrators
Posts: 55
Joined: Dec. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Oct. 21 2002,11:05 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

POSTED BY DAVID AIKEN


Aloha JT,
I think you e-mailed me at the time of my computer crash. If so, I am sorry about my non-responce.

In Military History magazine, Dec 2001 issue, is my "Torpedoing Pearl Harbor" article where I detailed the first mortally wounded Japanese plane hit by AA Fire in South East Loch which gained altitude only to loose it near the USMC Barracks and its crash at the USN hospital. I also detailed the plane immediately behind in the sequence of torpedo planes...and its immediate crash in South East Loch. Which hit the earth first is academic...

The article names of each pilot, and details after the crash are not meant for the squeemish.

Please contact me for more info...
HTH,
David Aiken

--------------
"You just go home, Mrs. Edgers, we'll get back to this piece on Monday."
-- Commander Alwin Kramer, after receiving crucial intelligence data from the only woman in the Navy's Cryptographic Section on Dec. 6, 1941.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
36 replies since -- < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 1 of 41234>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply Japanese air group losses Dec.7, 1941
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code




Spring into Action Banner