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Topic: American Aircraft Airborne DURING the Attack< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2001,6:52  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ah, yes! We had some fighters in the air...a rare few:

Taylor got two VALs on his first flight (of which he shared one VAL with Welch); then two more VALs on his second but got credit for only two.

Welch claimed two VALs on his first flight, but one returned to its CV and the other was a share with Taylor, and two planes (one was a VAL) on his second mission and got credit for four.

John Dains got in the air next and about ten years ago we learned he shot down a VAL. He was killed on his third flight by Schofield Barracks fire (ala the scene in FROM HERE TO ETERNITY) as he was trying to land at nearby Wheeler Field.

Harry Brown and Bob Rogers attacked a VAL, both put in claims but the plane went down.

Brown joined up with Mike Moore to attack two planes, years later we find they were Zeros. Both Zeros never returned to their carriers.

George Whiteman got his wheels off the ground just as Zeros hit the airfield. He crashed at the end of the runway. Whiteman AFB, MO is in his memory.

Sam Bishop was able to get in the air immediately after Whiteman, with the attacking Zeros diverted by Whiteman. However, he did not make it far as the Zeros caught up with him. Wounded he crashed off shore and waded ashore.

Four P-36s [Lew Sanders, John Thacker, Gordon Sterling, Phil Rasmussen] got in the air from Wheeler and were vectored to Kaneohe, where they bounced SIX Zeros! Two MORE Zeros joined the fray! Gordon Sterling was lost and is STILL MIA.

John Webster attacked a pair of fighters with his P-40, but was wounded for the effort.

Fred Shifflet made a circle of Pearl Harbor to seek out enemy aircraft, flew over Hickam Field and was filled with AA fire. He deadsticked the P-40 back to Wheeler Field to land on flat tires.

William Haney got hit by Pearl Harbor fire on BOTH of his sorties and had to return to Wheeler each time with a dead engine.

Woodrow Willmot, Aaron Tyer, Francis Gabreski, and Henry Lawrence avoided Pearl Harbor fire, but never saw the enemy. Gabreski ended WWII as the highest European Theater of Operations ace.

A sortie of 25 fighter pilots got airborne at 0930 just after Wheeler was strafed. Names are sought.

Now that we have THESE fighter pilots noted, how many OTHER American aircraft were airborne DURING the attack?

Edited by David Aiken on Aug. 31 2010,10:14

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David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 08 2001,7:02 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Aloha All,
Total number of US aircraft AIRBORNE DURING the Pearl Harbor Attack?????

Well, I outlined above the fighters. Add to that 18 SBDs from USS Enterprise that flew into war (six were lost, of which ground fire got one) and a dozen B-17s came in from California...(two were lost).

Then comes the movie TORA-TORA-TORA ...remember the lady instructor that joined up with a Japanese formation? ...she was depicting SEVERAL storys combined into one character. There were actually EIGHT light single engined civilian planes in the air, ALL but one came under attack...THREE were shot down [of the three, two are still missing].

Also coming from California to arrive during the attack was the PanAm Clipper ship ANZAC. Fortunately, they got news of the attack as they neared the Oahu coast and made it to Hilo, Hawaii. The Ambassador to the US from Burma [and his sectretary] was aboard.

At 0620 three PBYs got in the air to do anti-sub searching. One found a midget sub and helped USS Ward sink it. These were diverted to search for the Japanese carriers.

At 0700 four PBYs got in the air to do a "problem" with submarine USS Gudgeon off the island of Lanai. They were diverted to search for the Japanese carriers...one flew into a Japanese VAL formation for an air-to-air battle.

At 0915-0930, while USS Nevada was being hit by VALs, a PBY got into the waters off Ford Island and got airborne down the main channel toward the entrance with the intent to search for the Japanese carriers.

PBY pilot Ted Marshall got so mad at the loss of his PBY that he went to the old Luke Field side of Ford Island and got into a few aircraft until he found a TBD that operated. He followed and attacked a Japanese unit until the fuel guage said "return".

A B-18 was on Molokai. The crew were told to "return to their duty base" at Wheeler. They arrived over Oahu to be fired on by Ft Ruger fire, then Hickam fire, and landed at Wheeler just after a Japanese strafing attack.

Within three hundred miles of Oahu, USS Enterprise put up a four plane combat air patrol, and an inner air patrol of two bombers...then more planes.

How is your talley now? Can you name more???? Hope so!


ATTENTION: the roster above is also given in: Stan Cohen: EAST WIND RAIN [Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub; 1981, revised 1991, corrected 1994, retitled as ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR - A Pictorial History in 2000] page 97-98

Edited by David Aiken on --

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 06 2001,4:53 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Re:  The four P-36A Hawks that scrambled from Wheeler and engaged the IJN at Kaneohe; Lt. Phillip Rasmussen, 46th Pursuit Squadron was credited with 1 confirmed IJN plane shot down.  He was awarded the Silver Star.  He was jumped by two A6M2 Zeros, and his P-36A was badly shot up, hydraulics lost, controls damaged, and radio shot out.  After landing at Wheeler, 500 holes were counted in his plane.  He got another Japanese plane in 1943, and survived the war.
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David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 06 2001,7:12 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Ben,
Phil Rasmussen's combat report stated "Possible" when he and Lew Sanders, John Thacker, and Gordon Sterling jumped the six Zeros. This "possible" was later confirmed.

In speaking with (late) Sanders, (late) Thacker, Rasmussen and Iyozo Fujita, the pilot who shot down Sterling, Fujita confirmed the plane which Rasmussen fired upon returned to the carrier.
HTH,

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ben e fox Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 07 2001,7:25 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

David;

All of my notes say Rasmussen was credited with the IJN plane, as well as his later kill in 1943 or whenever, but I wasn't there and don't know for sure.  What I am more confused about is that for many years everything I found listed 11 IJN planes lost to air combat, and more recently, I have found statements saying 12.  Without splitting hairs here regarding who actually got credit (ie, Welch 3.5 or 4, etc.), I have Welch 4 (3.5, 3 Vals and a Zero), Taylor 2 (2.5, Vals), Dains 1 (Val), Brown/Rogers 1 (Val), Brown/Moore 2 (Zeros), and Rasmussen, 1 (Val), which makes 11.  The NPS says 12, and reports a significantly different number of US planes lost on the ground and in the air than I have.  

As far as I've found, Rasmussens credited (?) kill was the only one for a P-36A.  Welch and Taylor were flying P-40Bs, not P-40Es as is sometimes said.  I don't know what the others were flying, but thought you might.  

There was another P-40 pilot who was shot down and bailed, but I can't find my notes, I think it was a Dickson or Dickenson, or something.  He's the one who hitch-hiked back.  Maybe I'm confusing it with one of the Enterprise planes.

I have about 5,000 pages of notes and documents, all in a box and unindexed,and finding the page I want takes about three months.

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David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 09 2001,9:27 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Aloha Ben,
The P-40 pilot which you may be remembering was Sam Bishop. Check my second post in this forum. Yes, C.E. Dickinson, Jr, was the Enterprise pilot that hitchhiked to Pearl Harbor as detailed in his autobio "Flying Guns".

As to who shot down how many planes...
There is "Official" credit given in World War II and this is based on the reports given by the US pilots, and witnesses viewing the action (on 7 Dec 1941, this included ground witnesses)....

Then there is an on going study by historians which are comparing both sides records and witness testimony. Some are intent on changing the "Official" record, others are just intent on the truth. My study is to discover the identity of the US and Japanese airmen killed in action at each crash site and their last moments in combat.

The "Official" record on Phil Rasmussen's victory was based on his combat report. The "Possible" was replaced by the penciled "Confirmed". Phil's diary noted the plane was smoking on stitching it nose to tail. Fujita noted the plane's smoke and asked the pilot about it on return to the carrier. Thus we know that Phil did not shoot it down.

Of the Japanese planes attacked at Barber's Point-Ewa Mooring Mast Field area, Welch and Taylor made several claims which went into the Official records. Are we to change their Official totals when the Japanese records detail a lesser amount of losses in that area? I hope not.

My 1994 roster of pilots airborne DURING the attack is on pages 97-98 of EAST WIND RAIN by Stan Cohen [Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub; 1981, major revision 1991, corrected 1994]. Within that roster are the type plane, the unit to which the pilot was assigned, the pilot's name, and comments. A few errors and ommissions still exist in the roster due to one problem or another. I hope to upgrade this in my later writings. Yet, that roster wakes up the general public that Taylor and Welch were not alone against the Japanese aerial force.
HTH,  

 

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ben e fox Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 11 2001,4:44 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

David;  You have by far more info on US planes than any source I know...unfortunately my copy of Cohen's East Wind Rain was lost along with the rest of my library.  If you go through Prange, Lord, Kimmett and Cohen you get different numbers from what the NPS says...both for available aircraft and losses.  Prange is the only one I've seen who lists P-26s as in commission at Wheeler, everyone else says they were surplussed.  I'm rapidly losing faith in Prange's data.
  Since some of us do not have access to Cohen, could you list the material in the table you refer too?  As I said, I still show 11 combat kills for US pilots, the NPS says 12.    I have a question about the B-24 that had a mechanical problem at Hamilton field...I have a note somewhere that says it crashed after take-off into a mountain near Boonville, but that is best for that thread.
thanks.  By the way, every Texan I know is pretty honest.

Added...also I did find my notes on the pilot who bailed and hitch-hiked, it was Dickinson from the Big E, it is in Lord, cute story about the couple who picked him up and were nearly straffed and the husband gently pushed his wife below the dash.  Also, do you know anything about the Hawaii Airlines DC-3 that was supposedly straffed at Rogers Field, which started a fire behind the cockpit, and then a second Zero straffed and hit a fire extinguisher that put out the fire?  Sounds too interesting to be true.  

ben

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Santiago Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 22 2001,11:37 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

dear sir:
on the subject of the american aircraft airborne during the attack, I would like to
know what is the current situation on the crediting of additional victories to Lt. Taylor, because a couple of years ago I
visited Hawaii and talked to the historian of the army museum there she told me that they trying to upgrade the probable
that Taylor claimed over Hawaii and in some books he is credited with 4 kills.

can anyboby answer this question

Saludos
Santiago

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David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2001,12:24 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Aloha Santiago,
I wonder with whom you spoke. There is so much rumor and speculation coming to the forefront. The official "historian" at the USS Arizona Memorial for the past 15 years is Daniel Martinez.

There are many researchers intent on changing the records to boost certain hero standings, then there are researchers intent on "just the facts". My interest is in the facts rather than what some researcher's agenda is.
HTH,

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PostIcon Posted on: May 23 2001,4:30 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hola David:

I was during my second visit to Hawaii on December14th1997 (Iam a Army Reservist) me and another NCO visited the Hawaii Army Museum Fort Derussy and
talk to the female librarian who worked in
the bottown part of the Fort. He was wearing a fligth jacket to keep herself warm it was cold for her down there.

She told us about the issue about trying to upgrade Taylor's two probables and
that even a monument was being planned
to be built at Haleiwa field where both of them had take off during the attack.

He even gave Taylor address in alaska I
wrote to him but didnt get any answer :(
This is not an isolate case of fighter pilots
where historians are trying to upgrade their claims, per example the fight to give
acedom to Lt. Lee Archer of the 332th FG.

There is some confusion concerning taylor
score if you check some of the articles that
have been published in the past.

example in a AAHS article dated Vol.34 Spring 1989. The article says:

"...After the war the Inspector General
awarded Taylors victories for the two
probables he claimed on his first (Kate)
and the secodn (Val) sorties in the Pearl
Harbor attack...."

The article is AERIAL ACTION PEARL HARBOR ATTACK by Dr. William Wolf.
American Aviation Historical Society Journal
Vol.34 No.1 Spring 1989.

Quite interesting No?

Santiago

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