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Topic: Saving trapped people from capsized ships, Question< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 20 2002,3:24  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I know that 32 people were saved from the capsized Oklahoma. I want to know if everything was done to save people from the other capsized ships  (Utah for example).
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 20 2002,8:05 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The correct question would be "why would you think everything was not done to save the people in the other ships"?  

The USN in 1941 was a community.  The carreer sailors had served on several ships in their time and knew other sailors on just about every ship in the harbor.  So,  your friends are trapped, they're pounding on the hulls to be rescued, and you either issue or accept orders to ignore them?  If such orders had been issued there would have been a stink to high heaven long before now.

Without trying to be combative or confrontational can you please tell me why you asked this question?  Is it a claim being made on a TV show or in a book or what?  I'd really like to track down the source of this particular myth so I can dissect it.  It's so outrageous that it needs to be put to bed in a most thorough manner.  I'd appreciate your help with this.

Thanks,
Larry J

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"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."  - "Your Horoscope," Los Angeles Evening Herald Express, Saturday, December 6, 1941
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2002,5:00 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"The correct question would be "why would you think everything was not done to save the people in the other ships"?"  

Exactly!  
Thank you for your response.

Now a really stupid question.  This occured to me as I watched Pearl Harbor again last night.  When the Oklahoma capsized, the lower compartments were above the water line.  Why then did they fill with water?  I realize there has got to be some logical reason that I'm overlooking here, but it has me stumped at the moment.
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Cindy
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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2002,7:48 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

There were multiple problems involved.  

First, where are the survivors?  If you can't pinpoint the tapping sounds you can only guess.  Remember time is vital, wrong guesses cause wasted time.  

Second, how do you get to them?  Imagine you're trapped in an air pocket about six inches deep.  The water is coming in and compressing the air.  Now someone cuts a hole and the air rushes out.  The hole's only 1 inch long, but your air pocket's gone before it gets much bigger.   Alternatively, you're in an water-tight compartment and you've been there for several days.  Air's stale already.  Do I cut you out?  The torch flame will use up your remaining air.  This meant that pneumatic hammers had to be used.  They don't cut, they literally beat the metal out of the way.  Remember that we're working on a battleship hull, it ain't thin.

Third, is there enough equipment to go around?  We never thought we'd be doing a salvage job this big at Pearl.  

There's a better telling of all this, Homer N. Wallin's book.  I now have that on diskette and will be putting it on the PHHA site this weekend.  I will put the text up and then put the photos as I aquire them.  (Hopefully I can find all of them online.  NARA and NHC have most.)

Larry J

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"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."  - "Your Horoscope," Los Angeles Evening Herald Express, Saturday, December 6, 1941
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 24 2002,9:37 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hey, I totally agree that everything humanly possible was done to save every man at Pearl Harbor.

What I was asking was why the water would rise in a compartment that was above the water line...or did it?  (I'm thinking particularly of the scene in PH where the men drown with only their hands sticking out of the hull.)

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Cindy
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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2002,4:46 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression I was grumping at you.  I kind of surfed over the "rising above water level" point, I don't see how that would have happened.  I had just finished Wallin and my mind was on the guys who lasted until Dec. 23rd (at least).  Bad way to go.

Larry J

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"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."  - "Your Horoscope," Los Angeles Evening Herald Express, Saturday, December 6, 1941
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2002,9:27 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

You're right...just one more tragedy of December 7th.  I've always thought that the men who were so horribly burned had it the worst, but then, so many died terribly deaths that day...

It is certainly a day that will live in infamy.

We won't forget.

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Cindy
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2002,4:25 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Also remember that the battleship had a double hull that would put survivors down lower.
If you look at the following pictures you will note that she's got more of her side above water than her bottom:
From www.history.navy.mil
Under SecNav tours Oklahoma

I may be wrong on this on the Oklahoma, but usually fuel was stored outboard to serve as sort of a buffer for damage. When I toured the USS Texas, there were areas higher up that the crew used that were outboard, but when you got lower into the hull the only open areas were in the center. This could have been because not all of the ship is restored, but it could also be that the fuel oil bunkers were low and outboard.

So the two reasons that the survivors were below water would be the double hull and the fuel oil bunkers limiting their air pockets to the center of the ship, which was lower.

Brian might have more commentary on this as he's more familiar with it than I am.

Edited by Tracy White on --

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Let's see what this does...

Tracy White
http://www.ResearcherAtLarge.com
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 25 2002,9:22 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi, in case you didn't notice the other post, I have Wallin's book online at:

www.pearlharbor-history.org/wallin  

Working on linking and uploading the photos now.  I'll upload the photos and updated chapters as they are finished.  Lots of photos.  Don't have all, but 90% or so isn't bad.

So, if you've already been into the site, check back over the next week or so to get the new edition.  I'm putting thumbnails in the chapters, you can click on them to see the larger pictures.

Another service in the  interest of keeping the record straight, from the Pearl Harbor History Associates, your hosts on this board.  

Larry J

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"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."  - "Your Horoscope," Los Angeles Evening Herald Express, Saturday, December 6, 1941
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 26 2002,6:28 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Larry,

Thanks for posting the Homer N. Wallin book;) I've been wanting to read this since hearing about it. I saved the site to my "favorites" When did you first read Wallin's book? And what are your thoughts on it?

Hank
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