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Topic: Did the US provoke Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor?, Pre-attack< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 11
historylover Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 02 2001,2:44  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Japan would not have attacked Pearl Harbor if they felt that we were not a threat to their plans.  Unlike Hitler who would have done anything no matter what he had promised.  The agreement at the Munich Conference was a big joke.  If the Allies had been smart they would have done him in then and there.  Enforce the Treaty of Versailles.  Hitler was on a four year plan getting ready.  He was planning for the start of the war in 1942.  Every move Hitler made he knew that the Allies might react in war, but he knew it was very unlikely no matter how many promises we made.

Japan was not going to let anything get in their way, and when we got in their way they had to attack.  So if we had not gotten in their business Pearl Harbor would not have been attacked.  I believe we would have joined  both Pacific and European fronts eventually.  

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 Post Number: 12
Larry Jewell Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 02 2001,3:12 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Which way do you want it?  Stop Hitler at Munich or not get involved?  Ignore Japan or get into both fronts eventually?

Please try to be more coherent with your posts, or at least allow us to refute  your arguments instead of doing it yourself.  

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Leslie Mills Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2001,3:17 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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Quote: from historylover on 6:12 pm on Oct. 30, 2001
I  wasn't suggesting we did it on purpose, but through our actions we provoked them into attacking.  Wasn't one of the reasons why Japan was attacking China was to get their natural resources including oil.  

Why then, did Japan twice try to invade the USSR?  They wanted to vacation in the friendly climate?

Japan's military actions were determined by near-mutinies and compromises that make Dilbert's Pointy-Haired Boss look sanely competant by comparison.  Their invasion of China was no exception.

Case in point: Japan tried to justify their invasion of China by stating they were out to destroy Communism.  What did their forces do?  They occupied the cities (crippling Kai-Shek's power base), and raided the countryside in rice raids, were the Communists operated virtually unmolested.

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So what do we do?  We put an embargo on them so they can't get any resources from anyone else,

Incorrect.  Japan's economic advisers stated Japanese empire could be self-sufficient if they abandoned China, scaled back their armed forces, and concentrated on exploiting the resources in Japanese-held Korea and Manchuria.

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and we expect them to be willing to just go home and leave China alone.

Japan walked out of the League of Nations when they were condemned for invading China, and ignored any political and diplomatic protests it caused.

However, embargoing materials to Japan, and hopefully hamstringing its ability to continue an increasingly senseless war just might get the pacifists in Japan to gain control and stop the war without further bloodshed.

Also, the alternative was to coninue supplying Japan's war effort until it felt prepared to invade the UK/US/Dutch in Southeast Asia so it wouldn't have to pay for their resources.

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I'm not saying what they did in China was right, but they had their reasons for doing it.

That's nice.  Serial killers have reasons for their actions also, but that doesn't justify their actions, nor does it mean people should simply sit by and not act to stop them.

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 We only made them need it more by putting an embargo on them.  They also weren't doing anything better then any of our allies were doing in Africa and SE Asia.

Um, the US was not allied with anyone prior to the Pearl Harbor raid.  It was definitely on friendlier terms with the UK and allies than with the Axis, mainly because the UK wasn't trying to destroy all "undesirables" it came in contact with.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 21 2001,3:27 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

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Quote: from historylover on 2:44 pm on Nov. 2, 2001
Japan would not have attacked Pearl Harbor if they felt that we were not a threat to their plans. ...

Like the way they didn't attack China, or the two times they didn't invade the USSR?

Sheesh!  Quit blaming the victim!  Japan launched yet another senseless war, only to find out what happens when it ticks off a nation that outproduced the rest of the world combined.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 30 2001,4:40 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

The war in China was costing Japan five million dollars a day (and that was big money back in those days.)  They knew that they could not win the war in China, but that they would "lose face" (in their thinking) if they pulled out of China.  

The Japanese claimed that they needed the natural resources of Southeast Asia for their national survival.  What they really wanted was oil.  They wanted to go to war with the Allies to get the oil that they needed to keep up their war with China.  At the rate that they were spending their foreign currency resources, the country would have gone bankrupt by the spring of 1942.  They knew that it was a war that they could not win, but hoped that they could strike so hard initially that the US would make a peace settlement that would allow them to exploit the oil fields in Java and Borneo that they wanted.  All that they accomplished was to make the US determined to defeat them.  Their bombing of Pearl Harbor was their first act of national suicide.

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Warhawk1271941 Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2001,6:59 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

First off, we did provoke the attack by Japan by cutting off their oil supply. The Japanese knew as well as we did that you can't move anywhere without oil, so you can say it was our fault that this terrible thing happened Dec. 7, 1941. But we can't entirely blame ourselves for this, President Franklin D. Roosevelt knew something was up with Japan, and he also wanted to get into the war in Europe and the people of the US at that time wanted nothing to do with the war. So by letting the Japanese attack our forces brought us deep into the conflict, Hitler declared war almost right after the attack in Pearl and Japan followed soon after we declared war on them.

Governments can't be fully trusted, we know this, the events that happened on Sept. 11th let us remind us that we are vulerable to attack from anyone anywhere in the world. The government responded too slowly to do anything to stop this tragedy, we can't blame ourselves, but we surely can blame someone for this.
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Larry Jewell Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2001,8:29 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We reacted to Japanese aggression by refusing to supply them with the means of continuing that war of aggression.  If this provocative I hope we never stop.

The "back-door to war" theory has been thoroughly debunked elsewhere so there's no need to go into it here.

"So by letting the Japanese attack our forces brought us deep into the conflict, Hitler declared war almost right after the attack in Pearl and Japan followed soon after we declared war on them. "

Your history is badly confused.  Japan attacked the US, then declared war on the US (11:30 AM, Honolulu Time), then the US declared war on Japan.  On Dec. 11th the Germans and Italians declared war on us, and then we declared war on them.

Events outside the scope of this Board are off-topic.  If our members enjoy using this Board and wish to continue they should keep their posts confined to the attack on Pearl Harbor and related events.  I will also remind all that courtesy is our no. 1 rule.  Violate this rule only if you wish to lose access to the Board.  That should be "enuff said".

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"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."  - "Your Horoscope," Los Angeles Evening Herald Express, Saturday, December 6, 1941
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 Post Number: 18
Warhawk1271941 Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2001,8:40 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

So my history is a little bit rusty, so what! But still history is a tool for learning our mistakes!
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 Post Number: 19
Larry Jewell Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Dec. 31 2001,8:50 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

My advice is to make sure of your facts before posting.  Impulsive posts, especially when they have wrong information in them (or cover material we've gone over and over before) simply isn't productive.   Therefore, "so what" is that to keep the Board from devolving into chaos we moderators will do what is necessary to keep the peace and make the Board a pleasurable experience for all involved.  Those who wish to remain involved should take note.  

Larry J

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"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life."  - "Your Horoscope," Los Angeles Evening Herald Express, Saturday, December 6, 1941
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