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Topic: Uss west virgina, The three bodies found in a dry room< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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mamaseal Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 19 2005,1:39  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm new to the computer world so if I'm not doing this right please forgive me. I have been reading, Descent Into Darkness, by CMDR Edward C. Raymore. I am kind of confused,on page 124 and 125 he writes the following. "Three bodies were found in a completely dry store room. They were dressed in blue uniforms. The three had emergency rations stored at their battle station, and they had ample water, since they had removed the cover to an adjacent fresh water tank. they also had battle lanterns avaiilable for their use. Two of the men wore wristwatches, and one of them carried a wallet-size calender, which had the days checked off from 7 December to 23 December. It was believed their deaths were due to lack of oxygen." Where were they found, and is this their battle station or did they escape to it? They were found on the West Virginia during salvage operations. Now that my curiousity is peaked about them, any other information you would like to share will be appreciated. Thanks for the help. mamaseal321@yahoo.com ??? javascript:emoticon('???';)
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David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 19 2005,12:10 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Aloha "Marma",
You may use your real name here...we feel more like a family here.

Roger Hare, son of a WeeVee vet, addressed this topic with an in depth study giving names and much more...

"They Will Always Be Remembered" by Roger Hare

Edited by David Aiken on --

--------------
Cheers,

David Aiken, a Director
Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.

Keep the largest WWII website on line!
Join NOW: $25
P.O. Box 1007
Stratford, CT  06615

http://www.pearlharbor-history.org/
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Dan Madsen Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 23 2005,12:21 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

To add a bit of information to this very tragic story:

Wallin, in his 15 June 1942 report to the Navy Yard on West Virginia's salvage, mentioned other bodies that had been discovered lying on top of steam pipes in the after engine room. He theorized they had been inside an air bubble when the compartment partially flooded.

Mr. Hare's excellent article states that the recovery of the bodies began after the drydocking of the ship on 9 June. Actually, bodies began to be found by divers on 19 April, before the ship was unwatered, and by 26 May 67 bodies had been recovered. (Wallin's report and book state 66 bodies, the daily reports list 67).

Lt. Earl Liedstrand (one of the engineers assigned to the West Virginia project) wrote in his daily memo to Wallin on 24 May, "The fresh water pump room was pumped down. The water in this compartment was only 3 feet deep when it was opened and three bodies were found in it bringing the total number of bodies recovered to 66." He is refering to either storeroom A-111 or pump room A-109. The bodies were apparently found in A-111. So it appears that the bodies were recovered while the ship was still at F-6.

This brings up the additional question of how many bodies were recovered. I've read 70, "nearly 70", 67, and 66. 66 or 67 recovered at the berth, plus 3 in drydock would make the 70, but the contemporary reports seem to state all were recovered before docking. Wallin's report includes the 3 in the storeroom and he gives a total of 66. He also stated that about 70 crewman were still unaccounted for at the time of the unwatering. Interestingly, California listed some 45 crewman unaccounted for when pumping began, but only 29 bodies (or parts of bodies) were recovered.

All in all, one of the more harrowing stories to come out of 7 December.
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 23 2005,4:06 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks for the warm welcome, David and Dan.
  The name is Stephany Henson (aka-mamaseal) and as soon as I figuare out how to change the name problem I won't appear so elusive.
   In the article by Rodger Hare, David refered me to, he talked about the guards on duty hearing the pounding noise and in the book by the divers, he talks about no responce when they sounded the hull and how after the bodied were discovered how devistated they were. The way the divers explain it, the out come would have been the same, there was no way to get to them.
  There seems to be a giant lack of communication problem here. Did anyone know of the problem except the guards? ???
                                          Stephany Henson
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 23 2005,5:28 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi again Stephany,

Aside from the tapping heard aboard the Oklahoma during the rescue efforts, the official records that I have seen are devoid of reports of tapping. There are some anecdotal stories. One West Virginia survivor named Eugene Cloutier was one of those assigned to guard duty aboard the ship in the days after the attack. He told his son years later that he and others were sure they heard tapping, but were told by officers it was wreckage bumping against the hull. Perhaps it was. It was something that Cloutier never forgot and he was always bitter about it.

The efforts expended on the hull of the Oklahoma are testimony to the lengths the would-be rescuers would go when they thought there was a chance of finding someone alive.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 23 2005,11:48 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Guys,
       Having been to lots of accident scenes during the years I spent in EMS, I can see how that assumption could easily be made. I can't in my worst nightmare imagine what the harbor must have looked like and so far I have not seen any pictures taken at that time. With the kind of kinetic force created by some of those explosions and bodies in the water for that lenghth of time it would not be uncommon to not find remains. It's a miracle the rescuers survived the grueling task they had to preform. They have my highest praise for the job they did.
           Stephany
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2005,8:01 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

In my continuing research, some things have become clear:
-Many Veterans combined legend and rumors into "personal" remembrances that don't stand up to scrutiny.
-The boys in the pump room were doomed. With todays technology, their rescue would be difficult. Their plight on December 7th was unknown and even if suspected,many, many other problems took precedence.
-The "tapping" heard was expained away by Commanders as "Harbor noises", of which there were many-espcially at night. Go out in the middle of the night and strain your ears-you'll hear things that (combined with fear) will set your imagination flying.

I don't believe the plight of the Boys in the pump room was ignored. I also think Crewman who now testify they knew and heard their tapping is suspect at best. The Harbor was filled with salvage and rescue crews, whose noise carried in strange ways.
This tale was unknown for so long for many reasons-formost among them was there was some "theft" among salvage workers, who didn't want to call attention to their actions by talking too much about this story (I have my suspicions, but don't want to anger Familes by naming
names).
Bottom line: They could not have been saved, but deserve a place in history for suffering the longest, most agonizing deaths of all the Pearl Harbor victims.
-Roger Hare

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2005,10:31 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Many Veterans combined legend and rumors into "personal" remembrances that don't stand up to scrutiny."

It is indeed sometimes difficult to separate memory from fact. I came across one story from a survivor that described the Japanese sub that was sunk in the harbor as "hiding" under a supply ship after the attack. This story transformed the raising of the sub two weeks later into the capture of her "embarassed" two man crew. I just had to include that one in the book as an example of the confusion and the rumor-laden atmosphere in the days following the attack.

And because I liked it.

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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2005,7:47 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi All,
   Many thanks, for the clarification and warning. John, I really enjoyed your article. I can't wait for the hacker problem to be fixed so I can read more. I really appreaciate it when I can put a name to a piece of information and make a real person out of it. They were real people that went through that disaster and not just abstract tid bits of information.
  Dan,
     I know what you mean by some of the stories after the fact. I have been on accidents and read about them later and had to ask my partner with a smile, if it was the same call we were on.
  I feel like a kid turned loose in a candy store with all of these seasoned historians and links to other sites. Anyone know of a bookmark wizard to manage all of these new bookmarks on my pc. How about a sure fire cure for blured vision from screen fatigue? I was still wowing over mine at 2:30 this morning, and is there a name for this disease I've caught?
  Blessings To All, for creating the best site on the web for Pearl Harbor information.
                              Stephany :p
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PostIcon Posted on: Mar. 24 2005,7:52 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

oops! Sorry for the mistake in identity, Rodger, not John.
  Stephany
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