CLICK TO SUPPORT
PEARL HARBOR ATTACKED

 


Search Members Help

» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

1 members are viewing this topic
>Guest

Page 2 of 3<<123>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: What Would You Have Done?, If you knew the Japanese were Coming< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 11
Philip Payton Search for posts by this member.

1



Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: Jun. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 28 2001,8:00  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ok, Scouts from Enterprise report that the IJN has a fleet of 6 Carriers, 2 Battleships, 2 Heavy Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, 9 Destroyers and 7 Tankers, (the japanese also had 28 Subs some with the fleet but the majority ahead)

As you said Halseys task force could move 50 miles in 2 hours which would put him about 230 miles away from the japanese navy and coming from a direction that they were not expecting;

So Pearl sends out it's fleet, not including vessels in dry dock this could be as many as 7 Battleships, 2 Heavy Cruisers, 6 Light Cruisers, 27 Destroyers and 4 Submarines.

plus within 400 miles there is a further 7 Heavy Cruisers, 14 Destroyers and 8 Submarines..

1) So the attacking IJN airforce finds that Pearl is all but deserted before they can figure out what is happening the O'ahu air cover begins its attack.

2) Aircraft from the Enterprise begin to attack the IJN thier target the landing decks of the 6 carriers

3) The Lexington steams north parallel to the japanese navy with the intention of ambushing any returning vessels as they make a run for japan thier surprise attack having failed.

4) Enterprise and several vessels sunk by japanese subs

possibly...

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 12
Larry Jewell Search for posts by this member.
Historian
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 552
Joined: Mar. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Jun. 28 2001,9:47 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

We would need until the 8th to get anything close to properly positioned for a two-carrier strike against Kido Butai.  Lexington needs to get into range for a strike, and Enterprise is too far south of the IJN to be effective.  

How about this:

Lexington steams east as fast as she can.  Enterprise gets between the IJN and Hawaii and s****ers the attack force into friendly air cover.  While Enterprise  and the USAAF are duking it out near Opana Point, Lexington strikes the IJN.  The Battle Force, gets up steam and make a rendezvous with Lexington north of Midway for a second strike.

The forces at Johnston Island are sent screaming west to cover Wake.

What if...

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 13
Philip Payton Search for posts by this member.

1



Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: Jun. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2001,10:17 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Ok,

Thats definetly a possibilty, after looking through some of the links on the message board here and about, Pearl Harbor had available : (Ships receiving Non Crippling, minor, negligable or no hits) 2 Heavy Cruisers, 3 Light Cruisers, 26 Destroyers and 4 Submarines plus aux vessels.  

1) The Lexington Task Force heads South East, at the time of the attack she is 800 - 900 miles NW of the IJN.  30N, 170W

2) The Enterprise Task Force heads North East between Kaua'i and O'ahu in an attempt to force Nagumo to turn his fleet 180 degrees to engage the Enterprise.  

3) South East about 200 miles away from the IJN (22N 155W) is 3 Subs heading for Pearl they instead head North East to protect the Enterprise from Sub attack.

4) USN Destroyer Litchfield and The USN Submarine Thresher head north to hook up with the Enterprise Task Force.

5) Fleet from Pearl leaves to engage the Jap TF.

6) Fighters and remaining bombers from O'ahu launch to attack the IJN only if the ploy to turn them works so that they come back in range.

Finally as I see it Nagumo would have three choices: Run, Turn and fight hoping his superior carrier and submarine force could decimate the us forces, or split his force in two send 3 carriers the cruisers and 10-12 subs south to engage the Enterprise and continue North West with the remainder and escape.


Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 14
Larry Jewell Search for posts by this member.
Historian
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 552
Joined: Mar. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2001,12:17 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"Finally as I see it Nagumo would have three choices: Run, Turn and fight hoping his superior carrier and submarine force could decimate the us forces, or split his force in two send 3 carriers the cruisers and 10-12 subs south to engage the Enterprise and continue North West with the remainder and escape. "

Nagumo had orders to try and keep his force intact.  Remember that it was just borrowed from the thrust into the Southern Resources Area (SRA).  He didn't launch the second attack on Hawaii because the force was needed to cover the SRA.  

So, since we're speculating:  Nagumo hears the USN is out in force after him.  He decides to call off the attack, despite orders.  He is assassinated (or effectively removed from command) and the new boss, faced with gekokujo (David, is that the right term?) has to lead the force into a battle.  After first contact all bets are off.

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 15
USSBOWFINSS287 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 89
Joined: Mar. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2001,9:10 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

And perhaps, if we woulda had some DECENT torpedoes...we coulda sent some of our subs to do some hunting!!  Sorry, had to put that plug in for the Silent Service!

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 16
Larry Jewell Search for posts by this member.
Historian
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 552
Joined: Mar. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 01 2001,9:31 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Quote
Quote: from USSBOWFINSS287 on 8:10 pm on July 1, 2001
And perhaps, if we woulda had some DECENT torpedoes...we coulda sent some of our subs to do some hunting!!  Sorry, had to put that plug in for the Silent Service!

You're making an old "skimmer" nervous :scared: .

We had 22 submarines in the Pacific, total.  If 3/4 of them were grouped north of the launch point, with "some DECENT torpedoes" we'd have had quite a party.  Since Japan's experience with actual combat ASW was on a par with ours, i.e. zippo, some of the subs might have made it home afterwards.  Combine that with two carriers' worth of warplanes to pick off the wounded ships and we could have had a credible bag.

Sad, isn't it, that a bunch of armchair admirals can come up with some many ways to respond to the impending attack other than "just let it happen"?  

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 17
USSBOWFINSS287 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 89
Joined: Mar. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 06 2001,11:08 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Not to take any credit away from the surface fleet...but I wonder how "fact" as we know it in the Pacific Theatre would have differed if "fiction" would have afforded our subs with reliable torpedoes?

And I don't just mean immediately following Pearl...but the "whole bag" of  battle!!!  I posted (much) earlier that my uncle was anchored in harbor (Darnit, can't remember which one!) in the "combat area" of the South Pacific when the initial "fireworks" were going off and they couldn't do a dang thing about it!

Not that things weren't "hairy" in the Atlantic....but there was a TON more area to cover in the Pacific than off our Eastern shores!

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 18
Larry Jewell Search for posts by this member.
Historian
Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 552
Joined: Mar. 2001

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Jul. 07 2001,8:10 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

"but I wonder how "fact" as we know it in the Pacific Theatre would have differed if "fiction" would have afforded our subs with reliable torpedoes? "

"What-if" they worked properly?  How do you estimate that?

You could start by figuring how many failures there were. Assume the torpedoes actual worked. Determine if the original spread of torpedoes would have sunk or seriously disabled the target.  Then take the additional torpedoes, if any, expended against that target and apply them to other ships.  Do the theoritical sinkings affect and Japanese operations?  Does the sucess of the silent service change the plans of the Japanese?  If so, how?

Interesting speculative track.  

Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info WEB 
 Post Number: 19
johnbryan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Sep. 2008

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Sep. 28 2008,8:11 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE


(Philip Payton @ Jul. 01 2001,8:17)
QUOTE
Ok,

Thats definetly a possibilty, after looking through some of the links on the message board here and about, Pearl Harbor had available : (Ships receiving Non Crippling, minor, negligable or no hits) 2 Heavy Cruisers, 3 Light Cruisers, 26 Destroyers and 4 Submarines plus aux vessels.  

1) The Lexington Task Force heads South East, at the time of the attack she is 800 - 900 miles NW of the IJN.  30N, 170W

2) The Enterprise Task Force heads North East between Kaua'i and O'ahu in an attempt to force Nagumo to turn his fleet 180 degrees to engage the Enterprise.  

3) South East about 200 miles away from the IJN (22N 155W) is 3 Subs heading for Pearl they instead head North East to protect the Enterprise from Sub attack.

4) USN Destroyer Litchfield and The USN Submarine Thresher head north to hook up with the Enterprise Task Force.

5) Fleet from Pearl leaves to engage the Jap TF.

6) Fighters and remaining bombers from O'ahu launch to attack the IJN only if the ploy to turn them works so that they come back in range.

Finally as I see it Nagumo would have three choices: Run, Turn and fight hoping his superior carrier and submarine force could decimate the us forces, or split his force in two send 3 carriers the cruisers and 10-12 subs south to engage the Enterprise and continue North West with the remainder and escape.


The only problem with this scenerio is, the Enterprise Task Force is extremely low on fuel and will have to enter Pearl Harbor within 48 hours to re-fuel and re-provision before going back out on the hunt for the Japanese Aircraft Carriers.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
 Post Number: 20
johnbryan Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: Sep. 2008

Member Rating: None
PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 01 2008,8:15 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Also, the Lexington Task Force is alot closer to Midway than it is to Oahu and Pearl Harbor.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info 
26 replies since Jun. 18 2001,2:12 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 2 of 3<<123>>
reply to topic new topic new poll

» Quick Reply What Would You Have Done?
iB Code Buttons
You are posting as:

Do you wish to enable your signature for this post?
Do you wish to enable emoticons for this post?
Track this topic
View All Emoticons
View iB Code




Spring into Action Banner