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Jon Burdett 
Group: Members
Posts: 97
Joined: Apr. 2001
Member Rating: None
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Posted on: Feb. 01 2008,3:53 |
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Hi all,
I am wondering if anybody knows of a site or ideas in obtaining photographs of individuals at Pearl Harbor on December 7 1941...
Specifically of men ships were named for such as the wartime Destroyer Escorts named for men KIA at Pearl Harbor...i.e.
John Arnold Austin for whom the DE-15 was named (as well as others). I figured that The Navy must have file photos of the Officers at that time. I have obtained a number of pics from some sites, but some of these men are elusive.
Any ideas? I will list names if someone needs them.
THANKS
JB
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| Post Number: 2
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David Aiken
Moderator-Historian
Group: Moderators
Posts: 901
Joined: Feb. 2001
Member Rating: None
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Posted on: Feb. 02 2008,4:41 |
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Hi Jon,
The US Naval Ships Division of the USN Archives has files on all the named ships in the US Navy from the first named ship. This includes either artwork and/or photos of the namesake. A visit or correspondence should gain you those you seek.
Cheers,
david
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Cheers,
David Aiken, a Director
Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.
Keep the largest WWII website on line!
Join NOW: $25
P.O. Box 1007
Stratford, CT 06615
http://www.pearlharbor-history.org/
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| Post Number: 3
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Jon Burdett
Group: Members
Posts: 97
Joined: Apr. 2001
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Posted on: Feb. 03 2008,1:17 |
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Thanks David,
The USN archive web site (If I hit the right one) has people photos but is very limited. I suspect a lot of time and money to show everyone in the files is not a priority, and they offer search services for $30 an hour...does this sound like the right place?
Considering I am looking for about 40 people...pretty steep.
THANKS AGAIN
JB
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| Post Number: 4
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Tracy White
Group: Moderators
Posts: 772
Joined: Aug. 2001
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Posted on: Feb. 07 2008,12:45 |
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$30 an hour is about right; you're paying not just for their time but expertise. You can go yourself and scan the items in, but you'll have to spend a little time getting used to their filing system and request system; it's not like a google search. It's well worth the time if you can get there, just to research in general, but it may be more doable to pay someone for a block of time and just whittle them away over time. I can suggest a researcher in the area as well if you want to talk to an expert.
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Let's see what this does...
Tracy White
http://www.ResearcherAtLarge.com
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| Post Number: 5
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Jon Burdett
Group: Members
Posts: 97
Joined: Apr. 2001
Member Rating: None
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Posted on: Feb. 07 2008,4:48 |
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Thanks Tracy,
I live in California...so the $30 may be better spent as research. I would really love to see the archives though.
Many of the men the DE's were named for were not very hard to find...the MOH recipients, and a few well known Navy Heroes...but some of the men are not even coming up on a Google search (or any other for that matter). I am working on my Pearl Harbor Heroes collection of ship postmarks, and would eventually like to add photos of the men the ships were named for.
THANKS
JB
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Mike Wenger
Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: Apr. 2001
Member Rating: None
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Posted on: Feb. 07 2008,6:30 |
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Jon, Dave, Tracy,
Unfortunately, the pathway to the "people pictures" at the National Archives in College Park (and elsewhere) is not overly straightforward. The subject index for the operational photography is in a card file index in the Still Photo research room (on the 5th floor, I think). That is where one looks for specific ships, places, equipment, etc. However, finding pictures of specific people is different. "Personalities" have their own special card index file which is NOT in the drawers in the research room. You have to fill out a slip for a particular name in the range you want, and then they bring out the particular drawer of index cards that would theoretically contain that name.
The cards are more or less in alphabetical order, although clearly, some of the drawers have been dropped and have really been jumbled up quite badly. Finally, you place another request for the box of mount cards which contained the serial number stamped on the index card.
It is a total crapshoot whether you will find the name. With officers there is about a 15%-20% yield with the probability being somewhat (though not necessarily) higher if the individual remained in service after the war. However, there are many gaps. For example, there is no picture of Capt. Simons (skipper) of Raleigh, even though he reached flag rank. The yield of enlisted men is usually much, much lower... perhaps 1-3%, if that.
Failing to find someone at the National Archives usually means that you will have to go to St. Louis to the Military Records Center there, but I wouldn't give you much chance of getting a response. They have their hands full at present and avoid antiquarian inquires like the plague! In addition, you would have to secure the services of a photographic contractor. They will let you come and copy or scan (I think), but properly so, they are hypersensitive to privacy-related issues, which makes it extremely difficult to get to the records physically.
Unless you have an official reason to request the records (thank Heavens my co-author is with the Navy Department!), you are not apt to get very far. Bob Cressman and I have enjoyed some limited success, but it is just that... limited.
I don't want to discourage anyone here, but this is VERY difficult work. I wouldn't do it for $30/hour. Maybe for $50-$60. It is just that frustrating and labor intensive.
Regards,
Mike Wenger
Raleigh, NC
wengerm@mindspring.com
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Mike Wenger
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Desertmole
1
Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: Dec. 2004
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Posted on: Mar. 01 2008,11:53 |
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Hi,
Another problem with checking the Military Records Center is that many records posted prior to 1970 were destroyed in a sensless act of anti-war vandalism, when the records center was burned. Thousands of WWII and Korean War veterans have had difficulty with medical and personnel issues because of it.
Chuck Wohlrab
Edited by Desertmole on Mar. 01 2008,11:53
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Chuck Wohlrab
"I only wish I had you, the gentlement of the pen, exposed for once to a smart skirmishing fire..." Marshal Blucher, 1814
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| Post Number: 8
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Mike Wenger
Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: Apr. 2001
Member Rating: None
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Posted on: Mar. 04 2008,7:50 |
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Chuck,
You are correct in that there was a fire, but it did NOT affect the records of the U.S. Navy and USMC (thank heavens!). Also, there seems to have been a cutoff point somewhere, as the records survived for Army and Air Corps officers who stayed in service during the Cold War period. For example, the service jackets for Frank Bostrom and Robert Thacker of the B-17 flight, and fighter pilots Lewis Saunders and Philip Rasmussen are there.
However, the fire's negative effect on historians writing about the Army during World War II and after cannot be calculated. This effect was magnified when the Army destroyed its muster rolls for the World War II period. Hence, it is virtually impossible to reconstruct running rosters for units. What we have left over are unit histories and the contents of Special Orders, which, in MANY cases are themselves incomplete and present an imperfect picture at best.
The important thing to remember is the first "deflector shield" raised by the people in St. Louis is that "Well, the fire destroyed everything from WWII," which is manifestly false, period. There are some good people working there, but sadly, many simply don't wish to be bothered by the public. From personal experience, they will use any excuse to fight you off.
Mike Wenger
Raleigh, NC
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