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Topic: Rumors - Part 3, The "Electric Light Barrier" story< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 11
David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Jan. 23 2002,8:16  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Quote (Tracy White @ Jan. 23 2002,4:55)
Interesting idea David; has there ever been any documentation about the pause between when the torpedo bombers stopped and the high altitude bombs hit? I would suspect that might shorten your window down by a minute or 30 seconds.

Hi Tracy,
Note that the high-level strike photo on aft part of USS Arizona was by the second Kaga unit to drop bombs [first was on WVA/TN] ...AND two Akagi units had already dropped 10 bombs [on WVA/TN] ...when the final torpedo hit USS Oklahoma...

So there was no pause...to the contrary...they overlapped!
HTH,

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 Post Number: 12
Tony D Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 26 2002,2:10 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Quote (David Aiken @ Jan. 23 2002,10:15)
. . . photo 6-45 is a clock recovered from the aft portion of USS Arizona. The time given is 0806. This means that either the first bomb hit stopped the clock or the second hit. As the clock was in the aft section, I suspect the initial bomb hit.



Curiosity set of questions:

I've always been bothered by the "stopped clock" method of dating significant events down to the minute.  How accurate were the ship clocks of the 1940s - or the 1910s, when the Arizona was built - at keeping time?  Were they synchronized with a master clock?  If so, how often?  If they were synchronized on a regular basis, was the master clock ship wide?  Fleet wide?

Likewise, I think that we've all heard stories about someone who pinpoints the time he hit the water by the fact that his wristwatch stopped.  OK, how accurate was the average sailor's wristwatch of the 1940s?  How often did the average sailor check his timepiece against a master to check its accuracy?

The only reason that I am bringing this up is because, unless there was some regimented synchronization of ship's clocks with a fleet-wide master, then is it reasonable to assume that you can really pin an event down to the minute based upon the time that a clock stopped?

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 Post Number: 13
David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 26 2002,4:56 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Aloha Tony,
Excellent point! The best clocks were advertising "Coca-Cola" as they had a second hand! The rest didn't!

Yes, the USS Az clock is only a guide at best. Some reports say the second Arizona hit [explosion of ship] was at 0810,  some earlier...some later...

Of interest, the Japanese had similar problems...so "times" are a problem...sequence is more to my likeing.

Once we get the sequence understood, we get a better "feel" for the "times" in that it took a certain unit so much time to go from point A to point B...it takes just so much time for a certain group of high-level bomber units [with known distances between aircraft and between units] to cross above a ship...thus we get a better understanding of how much time was involved...

...so IF the Kaga high-level bomb group dropped its bomb pattern across USS Arizona, just as the final torpedo hit came to USS Oklahoma...and the number of torpedo planes that came thru Southeast Loch is known...can we get a feel for how much time was accomplished for that aspect and how would that change the 0755 "first bomb" hit at Hangar Six...and would that change the time given for the radio message of the code "To-ra"?

THEN we must relate that in terms that the general reader would understand...and THEY demand select "times"...

HTH,

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David Aiken, a Director
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 Post Number: 14
Tony D Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 27 2002,9:17 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

David,

Thank you for the explanation.  Sequences I understand and consider that they can be used to accurately chart a series of events.  A "stopped clock" doesn't and, IMHO, cannot.

My grandmother used to set her watch by the noon bells at St. Anthony's in DC and would argue ferociously with anyone who used a different standard, such as the clocks at the Naval Observatory.  I always remember that anecdote whenever I read of someone trying set the exact time of an event based upon a stopped watch or clock.

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 Post Number: 15
Ken Hackler Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 27 2002,10:03 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hey guys,

About the only thing you can say about time based on the photo is that it was after 0800, since the flag on the Nevada's fantail is already up.

Beyond that, getting within a few minutes is probably as good as it gets given the variation in times given by different ships. I've found the same event listed in different ship's logs five minutes apart, again, because not all clocks were exact.

Good luck on figuring this one out without a psychic to help!

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14 replies since Jul. 06 2001,9:26 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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