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Topic: Book Research, Planes, Planes, and Interment< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
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GolferMike Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 11 2007,10:03  Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Greetings,


I am currently finishing up my second draft of my very first (and hopefully, not last) novel, of which the Pearl Harbor Attack, the USS Arizona, and the Memorial play a major part. I have a few questions and I wonder perhaps if someone out there might have some of the answers to a few questions that I still have.

1) On December 7th, what was the position (North of Oahu) of the Japanese carriers when they recovered the first flight. I've checked the Prange books, but don't recall a specific mention of how many miles (100+?) North of Oahu they may have been.

2) It is also my understanding that between 12-20 Japanese planes that landed on the carriers, were damaged, and were pushed overboard to make room for the return of the 2nd flight...has there ever been any effort (by the HURL?) to locate any of these planes?

3) My last question is regarding the interment ceremony for USS Arizona survivors onboard the Memorial. As I understand, these services entail a honor guard, a 21 gun salute, the lowering of the flag flying above the Memorial where it is folded and presented to the next of kin, the playing of Taps, and finally the ashes of the deceased and handed to a NPS diver who deposits them into a crack at the base of Turret #4.....My main question is what is the exact sequence of these events? Obviously, the Honor Guard is first, and the Diver is last, but it's the sequence of things in the middle that I'm a bit confused about (I've read various newspaper accounts of a couple of different services and they all seem to be different).


I am grateful for any assistance that anyone might be able to provide me.
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David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 12 2007,3:41 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Aloha Mike,
I can address #2 of your questions...
Despite the damaged planes, there were no major throw overboard program as was US custom.
HTH,


Edited by David Aiken on May 12 2007,3:42

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David Aiken, a Director
Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.

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GolferMike Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 12 2007,4:08 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I appreciate the response.

In Prange's biography of Mitsuo Fuchida, "God's Samurai: Lead Pilot at Pearl Harbor,"  there is a quote

"...an additional ten or fifteen (planes) were so badly damaged they had to be pushed overboard to make room for other incoming planes to land. Another forty or forty-five were damaged but repairable."

I have seen various such quotes online at various sites, but I presume that they also probably quoting the information in Prange's book (I'll have to go back, but I think I remember reading a similar quote in one of his other books).

Obviously we're dealing with quotes that were taken years, perhaps even decades, after the fact...but...is the possiblility of 10-20 of the actual planes that took part in the air strike, some 100 miles (or so) North of O'ahu, sitting on the ocean bottom...that unlikely?

Mike
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David Aiken Search for posts by this member.
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PostIcon Posted on: May 12 2007,10:21 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Hi Mike,
I shall check again with me sensei to see what they say.


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Cheers,

David Aiken, a Director
Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.

Keep the largest WWII website on line!
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Dallas Patterson Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 13 2007,9:48 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Quote (GolferMike @ May 11 2007,20:03)
Greetings,


I am currently finishing up my second draft of my very first (and hopefully, not last) novel, of which the Pearl Harbor Attack, the USS Arizona, and the Memorial play a major part. I have a few questions and I wonder perhaps if someone out there might have some of the answers to a few questions that I still have.

1) On December 7th, what was the position (North of Oahu) of the Japanese carriers when they recovered the first flight. I've checked the Prange books, but don't recall a specific mention of how many miles (100+?) North of Oahu they may have been.

2) It is also my understanding that between 12-20 Japanese planes that landed on the carriers, were damaged, and were pushed overboard to make room for the return of the 2nd flight...has there ever been any effort (by the HURL?) to locate any of these planes?

3) My last question is regarding the interment ceremony for USS Arizona survivors onboard the Memorial. As I understand, these services entail a honor guard, a 21 gun salute, the lowering of the flag flying above the Memorial where it is folded and presented to the next of kin, the playing of Taps, and finally the ashes of the deceased and handed to a NPS diver who deposits them into a crack at the base of Turret #4.....My main question is what is the exact sequence of these events? Obviously, the Honor Guard is first, and the Diver is last, but it's the sequence of things in the middle that I'm a bit confused about (I've read various newspaper accounts of a couple of different services and they all seem to be different).


I am grateful for any assistance that anyone might be able to provide me.

After launching the third and final attack wave variously reported at 0245 Tokyo time or 7:15AM Hawaiian time from Point Z, 200 nautical miles on a bearing of 0 degrees north from the western tip of Lanai Island, the Strike Force changed course to proceed northwest at high speed. The Striking Force subsequently recovered the attack unit aircraft from 10:30AM to 1:30PM Hawaiian time as the Strike Force proceeded on the course to the northwest.
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Mike Wenger Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 14 2007,9:56 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Mike,

Re: A/C Pushed Overboard

The figure of 10-15 comes from Genda Minoru's interview of 30Dec47 with Prange, to wit...

"About 10 or 15 planes were pushed overboard from all the carriers."  Exact quote from Genda's interview, obtained from Goldstein during better days.

Mike Wenger
Raleigh, NC


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Brian OConnor Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 15 2007,2:02 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

I'm working on the process / procedure, but to clarify in the mean time; at the appropriate time, the urn is handed to the diver and he / she takes it and places it down in barbette 4. There is no turret 4, and no "crack".
I'll get back to you on the procedures as soon as I can confirm them.
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GolferMike Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 15 2007,4:24 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Thanks everyone for the response.

I did mis-speak when I said turret #4, obviously the turrets are long removed. I actually conversed with one of the NPS dive offiers 3 months ago. I'll try and dig up the exact quote she gave me (from a article she wrote)...


Here is what I received from Jennifer Burbank, Park Ranger/Dive officer.

"...we swim out to the ship, above the foundation for the #4 gun turret...descend 26 feet, the last few feet with no visiblity. The bottom of the turret is filled with sediment, at the edge of it is a small crack. We push the urn in; at about arms length, we feel it release and drop down into the interior of the Arizona..."


I really appreciate everyone's help.
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Tracy White Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: May 20 2007,2:20 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic. Ignore posts   QUOTE

Interesting... my memory is that the urns were placed on the track for the roller bearings but obviously I'm no diver.

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Let's see what this does...

Tracy White
http://www.ResearcherAtLarge.com
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Jim Adams Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Nov. 03 2007,7:10 Skip to the previous post in this topic.  Ignore posts   QUOTE

I describe in detail my experience and emotions conducting the underwater burials - interment of the cremains of Arizona survivors in book I co-authored - "The USS Arizona."  by Jasper, Delgado, Adams.  St Martin Press 2001.  Pgs 176 - 181.  In brief - Upon completion of the memorial service (scripture readings, etc. ),  the next of kin would hand me the urn (while I was in the water). We (dive team) would swim out over the Arizona.  During this time the rifle salute would be fired.  After diving down into the barbette #4 (the remains of turret #4) we'd bury the urn deep into the silt or drop it into a crack along the side.  When we'd surface, taps was being played; we'd wait on the surface before exiting the water.

Jim Adams
former Dive Officer and archaeologist, USS Arizona Memorial
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